Overview of the Old World

[Cael Darkhollow]

I’m not sure if the HQ text makes mention of where Rogar was actually from, i’ll have to dig out my instruction booklet and quest book later.

page 34 EU version of the Quest Book for the HQ Game System:
"The Emperor rode with his army towards Black Fire Pass, that perilous mountain route linking the Empire and the Borderlands." (Located in the Black Mountains South of the Empire on every Warhammer/HQ map)
South of the Black Mountains with Black Fire Pass linking it to the Empire is the Border Princes in the Warhammer World.
That passage excerpt from the HQ Questbook definitively shows that the Borderlands = the Border Princes of Warhammer, and the text saying Rogar the Barbarian is a "Prince from the Borderlands" definitively makes him a Border Prince (and an ally of the Empire rather than a subject of the Empire) and conclusively rules out any possibility of him also being the Emperor or Sigmar. Barbarian savior of the Empire trope is reused over and over in Warhammer (and HQ) however.
page 34: "The remnants of the army are now holed up in Karak Varn- the ancient dwarven stronghold." (after the battle of Black Fire Pass mentioned above) This makes perfect sense as it is in the Black Mountains near Black Fire Pass.
Page 29: "War with the Eastern Orcs is brewing and the Emperor needs to unite the lesser kingdoms for the conflict to come. To do this he must find the ancient Star of the West as worn by the Kings of Legend and by Rogar when he battled with Morcar in ages past." I take this line to mean that the "lesser Kingdoms" are also the Border Princes (where Rogar hailed from) and the Emperor went in that specific direction to unite them.

I think we should note that in the HQ text Mentor says that Rogar came from the borderlands, not the Border Princes. It’s possible that it’s the same thing, but the Empire has a very long border which isn’t confined to just the Border Princes.

The back of the Heroquest box also states that the new Barbarian, I.e the guy that we are going to play as, is also from the Borderlands. This is a potential contradiction with the later Barbarian quest pack, because the Barbarian hero’s homeland is in the far frozen north (“Welcome Barbarian, to the land of your youth!”). We’re not talking about the Border Princes here, which are south of the Empire.

"The Barbarian --- A mighty warrior from the Borderlands..." back of the game box 1989 EU version. I believe the first EU game box with the Barbarian player hero coming from the Borderlands was a mistake which is why it was omitted from all other game boxes including the HeroQuest Advanced Quest Game System (EU) and the North American Game System box. The barbarian's homeland was retconned (changed in the canon) to the North rather than the borderlands eliminating this contradiction with the Barbarian Quest Pack and the Growl of Thunder Quest in the novel.
The Barbarian Quest Pack on the back says "the tribal elders have summoned you to protect the Northland from great danger." The BQP questbook mentions the Barbarian on leave exploring "warm lands to the south," which logically rules out any non perpetually frozen environs or any Eastern or Western locale such as the Worlds Edge Mountains directly east of the empire, the Grey Mountains to the West or the southern Border Kingdoms. "your Norscan land where you are really at home." page 64 intro text to Growl of Thunder quest, Tyrant's Tomb HQ novel.
So the player's hero Barbarian character is only from the BorderLands (the Border Princes) if we only include the earliest 1st edition game system box and nothing else. Why in the world would we do that? And skip all the expansion quests? I don't think so! Rogar is from the Borderlands (Border Princes), our barbarian hero is from Norsca.

I wouldn't take the Borderlands = Border Princes so literally, because there's a LOT of lands around the Empire that could count as borderlands.

I think I've proven we CAN take Borderlands = Border Princes literally now given the evidence.

[Davane]

Since my assertion about taking the Borderlands = Border Princes is based entirely on the Barbarian coming from the borderlands NOT being an error or ret-con, I can't say that deciding that it IS an error or ret-con is actually proving your point. If anything, it validates mine, as it's essentially the same argument, but the conclusions are different based on the change of a single variable - whether or not the Barbarian coming from the borderlands in an error or ret-con.

Thing is, if we don't take borderlands so literally, then the same conclusion (Rogar from Border Princes, Barbarian from Norsca) is still valid, because I would easily consider Norsca to be within the subset of lands known as the borderlands, alongside the Border Princes.

Thus, all Border Princes are borderlands, but not all borderlands are Border Princes, is still an acceptable logical rule that fits with what we know - Rogar from the Border Princes, and Barbarian from Norsca - without having to state that the original statement from the 1st Edition of HQ was an error, or that the Barbarian was ret-conned to come from Norsca...

[Kurgan]

Welcome to my tavern, "The Borderlands!" It's a great place to sit and have a drink or spend the night as a stop on your journey. It has been in my family for generations! You might say I'm the "Border Prince,"...

Yeah, that Barbarian feller left here not long ago, you just missed him! Think I recall he was heading south, but we try not to ask too many questions these days as long as your money is good!

I know, Border/Boarder, pretty bad, but it's all I've got left.

[j_dean80]

So reading through WFB 3rd edition, I’m picking out interesting bits here and there. Most recent thing I read that jumped at me was about Halflings. They are so greedy they fight to the death defending their supply train, and also, if they get near the enemies supply train, they HAVE TO attack it. For a crossover to HQ, I was thinking in terms of a Hero. Some kind of search bonus, but they HAVE TO search for treasure in every room they enter.

[Kurgan]

Do they go berserk if prevented by enemies, or just when they have the opportunity?

[j_dean80]

Do they go berserk if prevented by enemies, or just when they have the opportunity?

If there’s enemies in the way, they have to attack them.

[Cael Darkhollow]

not many plastic or metal hobbit/halfling miniatures were ever made that have the same general aesthetic as HeroQuest, or the actual Warhammer halfling illustrations, most halfling miniatures just look like very tiny but normally proportioned humans -the LOTR Peter Jackson films effect- but in a mini, it makes them just look like a different smaller scale miniature rather than a different race of mythical beings. All of the D&D halfling miniatures suck they look like wrong scale humans making them completely incompatible with HQ.
I prefer the Rankin Bass Hobbit and Return of the King cartoon or the animated LOTR by Bakshi look for hobbit miniature style.




I own very few halfling/hobbit miniatures that I personally consider suitable for the HQ/WH world. I wish I had more!

A few that I have found and own are the miller and mayor from Dark World Village of Fear board Game (hard to come by I'm afraid. I haven't even painted mine as I don't have doubles and like to keep one game pristine)





Lumpkin Croop's Fighting Cocks were metal miniatures released for Warhammer as a Dogs of War/Regiments of Renown merc option to add regiments to allied armies, obvious homage to Tolkien Hobbits many have frying pans, bread loafs, mugs, bottles, pipes etc. on the sculpts
Warhammer Chronicles book (2004)‎ Regiments of Renown, pg. 65


Halfling Hot Pot was an Empire (5th edition) special unit for Warhammer


There are some older citadel/marauder halfling miniatures but they are too expensive being highly sought after for the vintage mini collector market so I never got any, and scale is all over the place being shorter, taller, fatter, skinny, etc.
http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=C11_Halflings_%28Citadel%29

Nearly all modern halfling miniatures just are smaller scale proportioned humans. I hate when they do that for Dwarves, gnomes, etc. too. I still have yet to find any suitable gnome miniatures.
Options for Halfling minis that "look" like HeroQuest or Warhammer are few and far between I'm afraid.

[Daedalus]

After rereading this topic from several pages back, I think the HeroQuest Marvel Winter Special of early 1991 is worth a look. Even though the author was a freelancer, ties to Warhammer's Olde World are evident. Perhaps more significantly, Stephen Baker himself was listed as an advisor.

Even in these days the fame of the barbarrians of the borderlands is known everywhere. There may be less of them now than there were once, before Chaos Plague thinned their ranks, but they are still bold and they fear nothing. They can be seen stalking the streets, thick gold rings about their arms and their hands near their swordhilts. Both men and women are very fair to look at, except for their scars which they consider a source of pride. Some say they will make alliance with Chaos. Surely it is not so, for although they lack learning they are a free people who delight in laughter and bright weapons. The barbarian heroes of old had great strength and also great courage. They carried off much treasure but they fought for the love of fighting. That is their nature. Rogar himself was a barbarian--Rogar, who bound the Star of the West to his brow and led all the Free against the Dark. Any number of foes would fall before the sword of a barbarian hero! If any barbarian is willing to aid us step forward and let all our swords bite blood together!

As I see it, the Barbarian comes from one of the northern tribes whose lands abut the Chaos Waste. At the time of Hero Quest, there were isolated tribes of northern barbarians who hadn't yet succumbed to the corruption of Chaos living in Norsca and the Northern Wastes.

Xanon Pass of the Cyberian Range could either be the Aesir Pass or Black Blood Pass. I prefer Black Blood Pass of the Goromadny Mountains as it is situated on the Kislev Map. This more easily equates them to a Siberian mountain range of cultually similar Russia. (Not much, but a link of sorts sa GW's Olde World was loosely based on the historical one.)

A couple of other details work out, as well. Black Blood Pass is said to be the home of Yetis, among other monsters. It is Guarded by a Kislev Fortress at its entrance, just as Xanon Pass is also guarded by a fortress. There are also a few Norscan Dwarf outposts in the area, which could account for some of the earlier Quest locations if they were taken by minions of the Frozen Horror before being regained by the dwarves later.

[Kurgan]

So is the Frozen Horror one of the chaos gods then? Or one of those lesser minion things. It seems like he's of the same kind as the creature you face at the end of the Japanese game and the Witch Lord. Big scary evil dead guy who comes back generations or centuries later and takes a lot of resources to kill again.

[Pancho]

So is the Frozen Horror one of the chaos gods then? Or one of those lesser minion things. It seems like he's of the same kind as the creature you face at the end of the Japanese game and the Witch Lord. Big scary evil dead guy who comes back generations or centuries later and takes a lot of resources to kill again.

He wouldn’t be one of Chaos gods, more likely to be at the level of a daemon prince or a greater daemon. These are very powerful creatures that are banished when defeated, but can return in time to the earthly realm.