TRAINING QUEST Rogar's Hall

[Kurgan]

Up to you... but it appears that's the intention. "You know what, I am done playing this game, sorry, don't revive me..." <--- could happen in a gaming session I suppose.

PS: In the "classicized" version I forgot one small detail. Fixed now.

PPS: Reversed the secret door icons. It makes more sense to me now...

[Orc26]

Made it 10 turns in so far with my "champion"s (this means they defeated the Witch Lord)
- only took 5 damage from surprise orcs.
- went west and found secret door to artifact chest
- got a second Borin's armor (elf now rolls 6 defense dice all the time...)
- An abomination got a lucky shot in against the barbarian for 1 more damage (all the damage the heroes have taken so far this quest.)
- just crossbowed the dread warrior in south hallway before I had to get of TTS and adult.
- no spells have been cast yet.

[Kurgan]

You don't mean he's wearing two sets of Borin's Armor... ? I assume you mean your Elf champ has other armor (helmet + shield).

[Orc26]

Dwarf has 'real' borin's armor, but knowing this he brought a battle axe instead of a shield. (Well he brought a shield too, but he is using the battle axe)
Elf has secondary set, and not knowing this would happen didn't bring a battle axe. Thus will always be rolling 6 defense dice.

[Kurgan]

2 (Base Defense) + 2 (Borin's Armor) + 1 (Shield) = 5 (no shield would be 4 total)

Helmet would add 1 (for 6 and 5 respectively).

I know that in the EU rules it says Borin's armor has 4 Dice in defense (and doesn't say the Wizard can't use it!). That's not "4 extra," rather it's bringing your base up to 4 (clarified in the NA as providing "2 extra" to whatever you have, just like Plate Mail). Since this is based on NA rules, that's how it would go unless I'm missing something...

Armor adds to your base defense, as opposed to weapons which simply replace it (base attack is 1). You attack with a dagger, that's 1 (same as unarmed) and with a Battle Axe it's 4 (not 5).

Not to be a rules lawyer, just saying!

If you wanted to be really strict you'd say there's only one Borin's Armor, take it out of the Deck since you already have it (same with any other artifacts you have). But we don't actually know that's the case. It's Magic Armor, he could have made other sets of it (probably did). Some other artifacts explicitly have multiples (throwing daggers, Spell scrolls, and the Elixir of Life). Canonically (if you want to use the term), the "other" set of Borin's Armor in Classic HQ is the Elven Chainmail, but since the EQP isn't getting a remake, who knows.

[lestodante]

They uploaded an updated version of the pdf, with the G letter in.
You can download it here: https://cdn.hasbro.com/faaa3d5019832273 ... 35eab5.pdf

[torilen]

I would absolutely say this quest would be played after the full original quest pack, if not even later than that.

Personally, I do not like the idea of Mentor venturing out with the heroes. If they wanted Mentor to be able to
heal the heroes, they should've come up with a different method of performing this. If Mentor can go out with
the heroes in this adventure, why not in all of the others? And why does he only heal the heroes? Mentor is
supposed to have power that at least rivals the Warlock Lord, yes?

And on a different note - I believe the Mentor figure is an add-on only for those who backed the game at the
Mythic level...is this right? Do they plan on making it for sale later to whoever wants it? Otherwise, it seems
very odd to me that they would specifically make a quest that includes the need for a Mentor figure, when
it is not clear if everyone will have access to that character.

I know, we've all homebrewed quests and made use of monsters for which we never had figures. This is not a
homebrew quest - this is something being published by a multi-million dollar corporation who is crowdfunding
a new game, who has access writers and designers of the caliber few of us will ever reach.

They should know better.

[wallydubbs]

Personally, I do not like the idea of Mentor venturing out with the heroes. If they wanted Mentor to be able toheal the heroes, they should've come up with a different method of performing this. If Mentor can go out withthe heroes in this adventure, why not in all of the others? And why does he only heal the heroes? Mentor issupposed to have power that at least rivals the Warlock Lord, yes?

I've always looked at Mentor as an ageless sage with phenomenal power that could only by rivaled by Zargon/Morcar.
It does seem strange that he would appear in this quest and no other. But as noted in the introductory passage to this quest, it's all an illusion propagated by him to train the heroes.
Personally, I feel this is irrelevant as winning or losing is pointless that adds nothing to the overall story.

The whole all-powerful sage battle between Mentor and Zargon/Morcar could have been downplayed, in my opinion. Mentor and Zargon/Morcar are supposed to be the supreme beings representing good and evil. Zargon/Morcar, as the overall encompassing bad guy is said to be in control of all the monsters. Well can't Orcs and Goblins think for themselves? (Or is the Bard the only one?)

I can see Zargon being the mastermind behind all this, summoning the forces of Chaos (now Dread) to fight for him in his ruthless ambition. But to oversee everything is too much power that no mortal should have.
I have to emphasize a mortality rate here. If he and Mentor cannot die, then what's the point? An endless struggle between good and evil and everyone else, including the heroes are simply pawns in the game.
And I find that this kinda takes away from the struggle of the heroes and group playing them. They're really not making a difference unless one day they can actually fight and defeat Zargon once and for all.

I know, we've all homebrewed quests and made use of monsters for which we never had figures. This is not a homebrew quest - this is something being published by a multi-million dollar corporation who is crowdfunding a new game, who has access writers and designers of the caliber few of us will ever reach.

They should know better.

Technically, it's not a new game, but rebooting an old one. Though they are a multi-million dollar company, the main focus of any company is money. Anyone who says different is kidding themselves.
They suddenly caught wind that Restoration Games was planning a recreation of this, since Moon Design was just sitting on it with their Glorantha series. Hasbro called dibbs before Hero Quest Legacies could be a thing.
So, for the most part, they're rereleasing the original game, Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord. And though it's a stroke of genius to call Stephen Baker back to his creation, part of me has to wonder what kind of people are really controlling this? If they were fans of the game, much like ourselves, suggestions of the Bard, Warlock and Druid would've been frowned upon. Adding an orc as a hero would've been welcomed, but not one that sings.
As much as we're all excited for new content, it seems like they just put this quest together because they could, never really considering whether they should.

[Orc26]

From what they posted about this Mr. Baker made this quest for the fun of it. (Something something cool mentor figure something something.)
For all we know this may be a free download quest that anyone who wants to download it can download it.

[Kurgan]

Of course Mentor trained the Heroes, but that happened off camera... or in the Premiere Edition it was sparring with a few respawning Goblins. "The Trial" is the real make or break beginning. The only problem is its ability to turn away new/casual players because of its difficulty (not as bad as the EQP/BQP "solo quests, but still!"). It's fun, but yes, Mentor doesn't come along because he can't rest his vigil. You can rationalize it as taking place before anything else, so it's not that part that would bother me. The question is will it serve any purpose in actually getting players interested in sticking with the game or will it serve to scare them off as others have said. This isn't the only new Quest we're getting, so hopefully the others give us something to really sink our teeth into. Mr. Baker is a veteran of the genre, we're going to respect his efforts, but he's not guaranteed to make them all equally awesome. I hope the rest are better...

I'm not against imaginative new stuff like this Rogar's Hall stuff. The "Mentor" figure is listed as a limited edition figure.. so it's not only only Mythic Tier pledgers... but its (presumably) only for this fundraiser. So like Sir Ragnar, after Nov 6th... the only way for ordinary folks to get these will be from scalpers. Of course anyone can play it, just use any spare figure like the "Dread" Sorcerer (Chaos Warlock) as a stand in.

In my custom Quests, Mentor only appears between Quests. I speculated about having him appear at various times to give messages, like a hologram or a magic message he leaves behind "if you succeed." Maybe a quest where he needs to be rescued, but generally he's just the guy who gives you your mission in between scenarios.

Mentor will never die, UNTIL after Zargon is dead. Zargon is still alive because of his evil magic, but there's a chance to beat him. The Empire can win. Sure, evil won't be gone forever, but Dark Lords can be defeated, and their influence shaken. When the war is over, many Heroes will retire, but police will still be needed to keep the highways and high seas of the world safe from those who will abuse their power and take advantage of their fellows. But Heroes are needed now because of the great threat. Mentor and Zargon are in a struggle, and Mentor puts you where you need to be to make a difference in the war.

Of course if the GM of the game is Zargon and he's Mentor, and he's ever bad guy you face... and without him or her, there is no game (unless you're playing some automated spinoff which has no flexibility). But storyline wise, victory IS possible. I've often thought about the "final quest" the grand finale in which Zargon is finally brought to justice. But if you want to play again, you're going to start over on page one...

Some Evil Wizard (Morcar/Zargon/Demon King) players aren't trying to win. They're just trying to make the Heroes sweat a little, but in the end trying to see that they all have a good time (heck, the Japanese instruction booklet flat out tells you to play that way). Others are trying to kill the Heroes, not by cheating, but by playing within the rules setup by the game.... matching his wits and cunning against them. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, but you never know... do you? And that makes it fun.


And yes, I would love it if, as in the time of classic Hero Quest (at least from the standpoint of EU players), free quests were periodically released online (in the past they appeared in books, comics and magazines), whether official creations or fan creations voted on, contest winners, featured content, etc. That adds value to the game and it encourages others to show their creativity, the kind of thing we all love about Hero Quest (whether we have epic beards or not).