Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

[Kurgan]

I’m actually not a big fan of most of the Paladin implementations. Especially any of the ones with the “turn undead” ability. Mainly because they tend to completely trivialize the major encounters in RotWL. But this being a discussion of the Bard and not the Paladin. Carry on!

Regarding the Bard “progression”
There’s substantial limitations on equipment that are indicated for the Bard.

IE Bonus Defense when using “non-metal armour and no shield”.

That becomes basically useless towards end game. A Helm, Shield and Chainmail give substantially more defense than would be available by ‘default’ so they become an “elf variant with 1 less HP” that starts with the EU version of the short sword.

My Paladin doesn't get OP unless you really stockpile your Holy Water vials over many quests since his powers are limited (Holy Flame, 1 usage) or just efficiency (black dice in his attacks vs. Undead at Champion level). Yes, he would kick butt on ROTWL if played properly, but anyway...

Is my understanding of the new Orc Bard correct?

Non-metal armor + no shield = 1 extra defense?

So Base defense: 2
Wears non-metal armor (the only candidate for this so far is the Cloak of Protection from the EU equipment deck, which I guess means it can be used by more than just the Wizard in this one... existing alongside the NA artifact known as the Wizard's Cloak)... so that's now 3. Here I'm interpreting the word "armor" to mean one of the three types of body armor in the game (Cloak, Chain, Plate).

[ Edit: another thought. Perhaps they have NOT added the Cloak of Protection as a purchasable piece of equipment in this version. If that's the case, maybe they're allowing the Wizard's Cloak to be used by these new characters as well. But since it only grants 1 extra defend die to the wearer, this changes nothing about my overall point. It might simply limit the Wizard's defense maximum, if he's playing alongside them and they have to fight over the Artifact. Maybe the Wizard gives it to him, or he dies and the Bard picks it up? ]

No Shield. Okay. And he gets a bonus, that's 4 defense, which is equivalent to what the Wizard would get in the EU (base+bracers+cloak; Wizard could only max out at 3 in the NA with the Wizard's Cloak plus his base defense). [Edit: Oops, I forgot that the Wizard can use Borin's Armor in the EU, so that'd be his 6! ]

Now what if we say "bonus, shmonus"?

Give him Chainmail (+1), a helmet (+1) and a shield (+1). That's 5!

Well but look above, does it say anything about a helmet? Or does "non-metal armor" mean no helmet either? (wooden helmet) If not taken hyper-literally, then you can toss in a helmet and he gets 5 in the "bonus" scenario as well. If the Cloak exists in this version, how much does it cost? if it's cheaper than chainmail, it's a nice way for him to save money (shields cost gold, after all) and get the same level of defense. Equipment isn't limited under NA rules, but still. In my houserules I made the Cloak available to anyone, but more expensive to nudge the Wizard into buying it until he can find the Wizard's Cloak (and providing a nice little perk once you get to Quests with the Pits of darkness). But by default the EU Cloak is cheaper than NA Chainmail.

And let's say you don't care if he "likes to be light on his feet" you can still give him Plate, Helmet and Shield for 6 total (substitute Borin's Armor for the Plate, for no movement penalty).

In short, it doesn't say the Bard CAN'T use other types of Armor, it only says IF he has that combination, he gets a bonus. He can still max out his defense just like the other non-Wizard heroes.

I'm sure you didn't mean to imply the Elf was useless, since he has no other limitations either. The EU version of the short sword point is well taken, but remember we're dealing with the NA rules, so there is no "EU short sword" redundancy, it's just a rename. And it won't steal the thunder of the Wizard's Staff, because that's something only the Wizard can use anyhow (in my houserule variant, others can use the Wizard's Staff, but it becomes the weaker generic Staff in his hands... though to be fair the Wizard never has to worry about the no shield limitation). [ Edit: unless the Warlock can fight the Wizard over the Wizard's Staff Artifact...!]

Thus unless I'm missing a rule clarification here, the Orc Bard's stated canonical abilities don't actually limit his progress, they simply encourage a specific style of play early on, which can be set aside later. Someone might complain that the classic Heroes become generic if they all have the same gear... and even that the Wizard becomes less special once you start passing out Spell Scrolls (I'd point out those are still rare and don't recharge between quests). And discussions about that and the influence of the Quest Pack artifacts that grant higher Body points are beyond the scope (and aren't part of the Remake), so I'll stop there.

If they were to step in and say that the Bard CAN'T wear metal armor (even if he doesn't want the bonus) and can ONLY use the Rapier as a weapon, then I agree, that would make the character a lot more boring and less desirable overall.

If they arrange the new material such that you can't use the Orc Bard until after the main quests, that only means that another Hero could GIVE Borin's Armor to the Bard at some point. Are they going to make a special rule that says you can't do that? In any case, let's say for the sake of argument the Orc Bard absolutely cannot use Borin's Armor. That still doesn't stop him from using normal Plate, a helmet and a shield, for a total of 6 defense. He can quaff a Potion of Strength to add two more for a total of 8 (for one attack) and have Courage cast on him for another 2 (total of 10 for one attack in this case and then 8 after that as long as he can still see monsters). So he can be just as strong as the Barbarian, for all intents and purposes, in combat. It doesn't say he can't use other weapons, just that he starts with the Rapier. So he can use a longsword with a shield for 3, or he can ditch the shield and use a Battle Axe. And did someone say he couldn't have a crossbow as well? Whatever you think about mixing weapons, he would be subject to the same limitations as the Elf, Dwarf, or Barbarian as I see it. Thoughts?

[Kurgan]

What makes the OB uniquely useful at this point seems to be his multi-heal ability. He can theoretically heal the whole team at once (each only +2 BP, but still, that's pretty worthwhile, since it's up to 8 that get restored instead of 4 with the typical healing spell or max of 6 from a single potion of healing to a single user).

[cynthialee]

What makes the OB uniquely useful at this point seems to be his multi-heal ability. He can theoretically heal the whole team at once (each only +2 BP, but still, that's pretty worthwhile, since it's up to 8 that get restored instead of 4 with the typical healing spell or max of 6 from a single potion of healing to a single user).

If there are Henchmen in play or 5 or 6 players then he can heal even more.
As Zargon I would have to allow minions to be healed. As they only have like 2 BP they are only going to be down by 1 or dead anyways.

[Kurgan]

I would allow it. My cleric's healing ability would apply to Mercs just as well as Heroes, and that would mean you could heal eight figures at once (plus yourself in this case). That's a lot of healing power from one alchemically electrified mandolin! But they're going to need it for the challenges ahead, for sure.

The spell cards were written before Mercs were added to the game so they technically say "any one Hero" but I take it to mean that applies to them as well (any good guys you control), but it would only matter for the NA style rules, as in the EU they have 1 BP only. But you could cast Rock Skin or Courage over them too, etc.

Though... we don't have any indication yet that Mercenaries will play any role in the new Quest books. It's possible, since they wouldn't have to use actual Merc figures. Might just be one (use the Dread Sorcerer generic figure), or a squad of renegade Orcs or something. Might be quest specific, like what happens in the EQP.

Now that the OB has been released into the world, he can be used anywhere, or used as inspiration for other things...

[Shadzar]

What makes the OB uniquely useful at this point seems to be his multi-heal ability.

Sarcasm: Was that required in the 30 years the game was released?
Was an orc needed to do that?
Was a bard needed to do that?
Was trying to turn HQ into D&D 5e required to do that? /Sarcasm

Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should.

Also, though i can't stand him, this person makes a valid point, that many of us have already made, in regards to adding weird things to an established universe/franchise.
When to say NO.

[Daedalus]

Anyone else give the orc bard a try in a play test? Just wondering if others had the same opinion of his spells and the rapier as I did.

. . . Lullaby is basically a Sleep spell. Personally, I with HQ would stop using Red Dice for Mind Points, when you have the Combat Dice available. 1 in 6 chance is rolling a Black Shield, so why not just have targets resisting the spell on a Black Shield instead?

I think the NA rules switched the die type to red for resisting spells in order to iron out some minor points of confusion that arose from the EU rules. Consider the Sorcerer spells from Against the Ogre Horde:

• Mind Lock ". . . The Chaos Sorcerer makes a Mind Attack against his target by rolling a number of combat dice equal to his Mind points. His target defends with as many combat dice as he has Mind points. The defender is frozen for one turn for each skull scored by the attacker. . . ."
• Dominate " . . . The Chaos Sorcerer must attack his target by rolling a number of combat dice equal to his Mind points while the defender does the same to defend himself. . . . If the attack is unsuccessful, nothing happens. . . ."
• Mind Blast ". . . To attack with Mind Blast, both characters roll a number of combat dice equal to their Mind point score and add up the number of skulls they have. The one with the most skulls, be it the attacker or defender, then inflicts Mind point damage on his opponent equal to the number of skulls he has in excess of his opponent's score. . . ."

Since the wording of the spells include multiple instances of attack and defend alongside combat dice, it is possible to interpret that both the two extra combat dice from a Potion of Resilience or a Potion of Strength may be added to these rolls:

• Potion of Resilience ". . . You may then roll two extra combat dice in defence when you next defend. . . ."
• Potion of Strength ". . . It will enable you to roll two extra combat dice in attack in your next attack."

The cross-application of the potions that affect both Mind point damage and Body point damage feels wonky to me, and I'm guessing the writers of the NA rules felt the same. That could explain the across-the-board separation of dice into red for spells, and combat dice for Body Point damage from weapons and traps.

Regardless of the EU rule interaction, using red dice for resisting spell effects that cause Body Point damage helps certain NA Chaos Spells to work without ambiguity:

• Ball of Flame ". . . The Hero immediately rolls two red dice. For each 5 or 6 rolled, the damage is reduced by 1 point."
• Firestorm ". . . All victims immediately roll two red dice. For each 5 or 6 rolled, the damage is reduced by 1 point."

As worded, there's no way to combine the two extra combat dice from a Potion of Defense to reduce damage. Had the wording of the spells included the terms combat dice and white shield instead, a Hero player might try to argue that a Potion of Defense should be allowed to help defend against the Body Point damage of those spells. The game was originally made for munchkins, after all.

Back to your question, Lullaby doesn't cause Body Point damage, so yes, a black shield could work fine. However, I think it is a matter of spell continuity that Lullaby agree with Sleep and Cloud of Chaos, just as red dice are used for resisting all NA spells to be uniform. Within the EU system, the cards also work uniformly the same, but with combat dice.

As for the Bard's ability to gain +1 Defence Die when not wearing Armour, I would consider altering that slightly. Swashbucklers are named after the bucklers they would "swash" to try and distract foes. So, I would consider letting the Bard use a Shield, and still gain the bonus Defence Die. The restrictions should be that the Bard doesn't get the bonus Defence Die when wearing Armour or a Helmet.

The Bard with a Shield could have a Defence of 4 Dice (2 Base, +1 Shield, +1 Bard) which is equivalent to a Bard wearing Plate Mail anyway. A Bard can still get a Defence of 6 Dice from wearing Platemail, Shield, and a Helmet - as the Bard isn't restricted from wearing Armour, Shields, or Helmets.

The phrasing of "non-metal Armour" implies that either the Bard CAN use Wizard-Only Armour, or that non-metal Armour is going to be added to the game, possibly meaning that all Armour values will be increased by +1 Die.

So, Leather = +1 (for 3 Dice), Chain = +2 (for 4 Dice), and Plate = +3 (for 5 Dice). You can then get a Shield and a Helmet for an extra +2 Defence Dice, for a possible total of 7 Defence Dice without spells.

The Wizard's Cloak ". . . can be worn only by the Wizard, . . ." so that excludes the Bard as written. I think you are right that a new armor will be added, however. I can see Abadios adding a new kind of armor in his expansion to maintain the Orc Bard's preference for wearing non-metal armor, such as shark's skin or leather. I think it would be better for the game if he adds it as a kind of equipment or artifact that benefits the Orc Bard rather than a +1 bump be given in the main rules to all armor Defense Dice. Those Heroes are already stronger than most of the monsters they face in KK and RotWL.

[Kurgan]

It seems to have already been established that although the original intention behind the Wizard's Cloak is that it can ONLY be used by the Wizard, that certain characters are considered "Wizards" for the purpose of what Equipment or Artifacts they can use, hence the Warlock is also a "Wizard" OR you could say "may only be used by the Wizard OR Warlock."

But since there's only one Wizard's Cloak (or Wizard's Staff), they have to fight over it, unless you split it into two and the characters write it on their sheets. I can understand if you're playing a Quest and only one of those types of Hero is present, but if they both are, what then? Flip for it?

[Daedalus]

If the Wizard and Warlock players can't agree who gets the Wizard's Cloak, I'd say roll for it. Better yet, each Hero should roll a number of combat dice equal to their Mind Points for a magic duel of wills. Most skulls gets the cloak. Bow to my might!

As for the Wizard's Staff, the Warlock player would be a huge tool to expect ownership over the Wizard as the Warlock already has the wand. It deals the same damage, but at range.

Who knows? Maybe the Avalon team will add the Wizard's cloak back to the Armory, alongside the Wand.

[Kurgan]

The instructions manual told the Wizard to save his gold for powerful magical items in future quest packs (which never came) so it wouldn't be so bad to buy the Wizard's Staff (though that diminishes its uniqueness as a found Artifact in the original adventure). The Cloak of Protection was a purchase item in the EU edition, but there was no Wizard's Staff... the generic Staff was already as strong and usable by anyone. Making these items all purchasable but only USE/WEAR-able by certain characters would be fine. Just make them expensive and that's enough, because the point is to give the Magic users better gear. The other heroes can spend their gold on longswords, chain mail, crossbows and such.

[cynthialee]

Some of the Wizard Gear I have in my game as player generated gear.

1. Ancient Staff of Arcane Power This heavy staff is indestructible, may store 1 spell per quest and rolls 2 Purple Dice per attack. (this decreases the chance the wizard hits, only 2 faces of the purple dice have skulls; but increases the potential damage as there is 1 face with a double skull. So the Wizard hits a little less often but the damage comes out higher when hits do happen.) As per the Staff and Wizard Staff this weapon may strike diagonal.
2. Circlet of Arcane Protection. This head piece increases the wearers Defense Dice by 1 point. The wearer may sacrifice this artifact to ignore the results of any 1 enemies attacks for the enemies attack turn. (if you have a monster with multiple attacks this will save the wizard 1 time basically)
3. Necklace of Health This Artifact will increase the Body Points of the Wizard by 1 point. The wearer may sacrifice this artifact to heal all of the damage he or a compatriot has sustained.
(these items are not available to the Amazon, Cleric, Bard or Ranger* but may be used by Warlock, Witch and Sorcerer* style characters. Basically only straight spell caster types.)

*I have a lot of extra heroes in my stuff.