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Playing as the Bad Guys

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby Kurgan » October 10th, 2020, 10:59 pm

Capture the Flag in the Hero Quest Dungeon. Think of it.

The difference between this and a war game would be the size and scope. We're still using the Hero Quest Board (or you could go Dark Company and construct a multi-part board). And we're talking a small number of high level characters and some weak minions (vs. whole armies of specialized units), and I like the idea of neutral factions that will attack either (is Zargon favoring one side? who knows!). I would give the bad guys blue dice for defense, which is equivalent to counting white shields (2 out of 6 chance of blocking a hit), otherwise they'd be pretty weak. The bosses of HeroQuest seem designed to slow the Heroes down and force them to gang up, but truly equal sides would be a real knock down drag out fight. I have never tried a HeroQuest "Deathmatch." How does a fight between the Barbarian and the Wizard go?

What if like in the video games where there's an anti-Wizard, anti-Barbarian, anti-Elf and anti-Dwarf... each an evil version of the "good" Heroes that they have to take out. Mirror Match. But having two different sides would require some balancing, but might be really interesting. Great ideas.. keep 'em coming!

Maybe the good guys can summon help too..? Many have proposed summoning Elementals, and then there are the lone monster "parley" with Monster mercenaries... Ogre mercs? You could come up with ways to balance it out. I like the idea of the Skaven being the "neutral" faction though. Something already in the lore that can be repurposed for this scenario (or series of scenarios).


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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby j_dean80 » October 11th, 2020, 12:58 am

Kurgan wrote:What if like in the video games where there's an anti-Wizard, anti-Barbarian, anti-Elf and anti-Dwarf... each an evil version of the "good" Heroes that they have to take out. Mirror Match. But having two different sides would require some balancing, but might be really interesting. Great ideas.. keep 'em coming!


Check out Summons of the Wizards’ Council Quest Pack. Quest 7 to be specific.
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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby lestodante » October 11th, 2020, 5:55 am

j_dean80 wrote:Check out Summons of the Wizards’ Council Quest Pack. Quest 7 to be specific.


Yes, I remember your Summons of the Wizards' Council questpack. My idea of the evil wizard to be playable comes from the idea of properly reworking the Wizards of Morcar quest pack, making it more playable and including bonus quests where the players can use the 4 evil wizards.
The first one was to hunt and slay Festral!


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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby Kurgan » October 11th, 2020, 12:26 pm

Nice. I didn't quite realize you had the evil Wizards as player characters in that, I just thought it was a remake of Wizards of Morcar. Will have to check it out...


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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby j_dean80 » October 11th, 2020, 8:20 pm

Kurgan wrote:Nice. I didn't quite realize you had the evil Wizards as player characters in that, I just thought it was a remake of Wizards of Morcar. Will have to check it out...


No, I have the evil Wizards as evil Wizards. What I was referring to is the part you mentioned a Quest with anti-Barbarian etc.. The Heroes facing off against their evil selves.
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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby elvyler » October 11th, 2020, 8:24 pm

Maybe it's multiple quests and you have to face off one hero in each quest. Maybe there's a special item that you have to collect before you can defeat each hero.
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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby Pancho » October 12th, 2020, 2:06 am

I think this thread is a good example of how the new release of Heroquest can encourage very creative thinking from the existing community. I hope to see see some interesting quests come out of this.

I have nothing else to add except to link to a recent quest I did where two Heroes face off against the four Cabiri wizards. It was intended for an experienced EWP to face off against against an experienced solo player, but could easily be adapted for more players. Each of the Cabiri has control of traps and spells related to his elemental type. Feel free to plunder it for ideas; viewtopic.php?f=149&t=5045&start=70


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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby Kurgan » January 15th, 2021, 1:46 pm

Fallensaviour wrote:Ever since I saw the cover for “Orc Quest”
I’ve wanted to do this.Exchange all hero’s for green skins and do some quests as orcs.
Wandering monsters would be men at arms.
Or the hero’s have been transformed into green skins by a wizard to infiltrate the dungeons to obtain something.
Either way I think it could be great fun and really change things up a bit.


I had not looked at these card games before... and they are card games, not really tabletop miniature games (though they do use special dice) Orc Quest... and an even bigger parody, Pork Quest, I guess on take on the "pig men" Orcs of early D&D That artwork very much reminds me of the Hasbro Remake (which seems to draw a lot of inspiration from World of Warcraft for its interpretation of Orcs), and the cover is a straight up parody of the classic Game System box.

The idea of "Deathmatching" in HeroQuest I think begs the help of our EU members... since in that game Heroes could actually attack each other and "compete" to an extent. The instruction books even feature "training" scenarios where you and goblins fight each other (meaning Heroes fight each other too). What were your experiences with this type of "sparring" like? I know some players prefer to work together, and that's how the NA game was designed... it's like "team damage" in fighting games (scrolling brawlers like Double Dragon), you really want to avoid it and its an annoyance (and can mess with friendships!) until the end when you really want to face off! (then again titles like Street Smart incorporated both... trading off player vs player and player cooperative matches throughout the game, with the "grudge match" feature).

It would seem like the Wizard is at a real disadvantage in these fights because of his low attack and defense, but then again, the Barbarian and Dwarf have low resistance to Magic (still, they can survive even the biggest hits the Wizard could tend to manage). But I suppose two Heroes could team up against the other two. Still, the idea of team battles with more than four human players would be pretty cool. The trouble now is getting that many people around a table to test it! (virtual gaming sessions... anyone?)


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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby Davane » January 16th, 2021, 12:00 am

I thought I'd jump in (and annoy Kurgan, obviously) with regards to those getting excited about a HQ version of capture the flag.

GW released DungeonBowl, a version of Blood Bowl, that saw Dwarves and Elves duke it out in a dungeon. The whole point was that the dungeon itself became the arena for a Blood Bowl game. This would be reprised once again in the late '90's, when WD covered using the WHQ dungeon boards to create Blood Bowl arenas. GW currently have all sorts of skirmish games that could easily be converted to use in a Dungeon environment fairly easily.

As such, a version of HQ with capture the flag is very doable.

GW also worked on Space Hulk and (Advanced) Space Crusade, which primarily works like a skirmish game pitting two or more sides against each other in a dungeon-like environment. This approach of playing a side is a bit like the EW against a single player controlling all four heroes, or a hero and some henchmen.

With all this in mind, if you wanted to have the players as the bad guys, you can do two routes - either give each player a Champion, which would work pretty much like the UK version of HQ with full on PvP action, or give them teams, and turn HQ into more of a skirmish game like Mordheim or Space Hulk. You may want the EW to be less adversarial, and more like a neutral referee, or may even dispense with the EW role altogether if there's no need for 3rd-party arbitration. You can probably split the teams up into three main groups - Chaos, Greenskins, and Undead, and with a bit of tweaking, work out suitable sized teams, if you want multiple players being the bad guys.

If you don't want to go to the effort of having a pre-designed arena, you could always adapt the Maze generation rules using the HQ board from AHQ to create an arena to explore. Simple put multiple stairs leading into the maze (one per team, preferably), and consider having the corners of the board blocked, either as well as or instead of the junctions leading to the corridor around the central room. Then, the teams get to basically explore until they meet somewhere, and then duke it out or whatever.

Most of this relies on the idea that the dungeon itself is less of a quest and more of an arena - a neutral, potentially hostile, environment that the teams fight in, that may or may not favour certain teams depending on the contest. Nobody says games have to be fair...

Finally, you could go with the Dungeon Keeper route. That is, have the players work to design the dungeon. Tell them how many traps, monsters, and furniture they can use, and whether they can add any special rules or not, and get them to design the quest. Then you can attack them with Heroes and Henchmen. Heck, if you wanted, you could let the players control the heroes and henchmen and design the dungeon, for monsters to lay siege to.
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Re: Playing as the Bad Guys

Postby Kurgan » January 16th, 2021, 5:00 am

So using the HQ board for two team CTF (and some random mooks wandering around), how would you do it? I was thinking maybe the entire board is used, and the rooms have items that respawn, maybe on a timer or something... number of turns? So you might find something useful, like a piece of equipment or a Spell scroll or potion?

I don't know much about the blood bowl rules, but would it work better with two flags or one? The default board has that central room... or maybe the room would change every capture, to a random location?


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