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Putting a Price on Artifacts

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby wallydubbs » February 13th, 2020, 11:26 am

Theoretically all the heroes are equal, but the Wizard is a bit different: he's severely handicapped because he cannot buy many things from the armory, but he can cast spells, which other heroes are limited by comparison. But by grading what the heroes can do in equal measure we can find a suitable price for spells. Spells take up the majority of the artifacts in Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord.
If we're being generous to Mind Points we can say both body and mind points are worth 150 gold each. Combined all heroes add up to 10. This leaves the Wizard with his spells and the heroes with their armor and weapons. Not taking into account artifacts we have a hero with a Helmet (125 gold), plate mail (850 gold), a shield (125 gold), a long sword (350 gold), and perhaps a secondary weapon, which we'll say is a crossbow (350 gold) add that up and we have 1,800. If the heroes are indeed all equal, we can say to a certain degree this is what 9 spells are worth.
However not all spells should be worth the same. There's a top tier spell in each group (Genie, Heal Body, Courage and Water of Healing), a middle one that's not as powerful but still useful (Tempest, Rock Skin, Ball of Flame and Sleep) and a bottom tier (Swift Wind, Pass Through Rock, Fire of Wrath and Veil of Mist).
1800 ÷ 9 = 200. Middle tier is worth 200, bottom tier we'll say 100, 300 for top tier.

So for Keller's Keep artifacts we have:
Spell Scroll Ball of Flame- 200 gold
Spell Scroll Courage- 300 gold
Spell Scroll Fire of Wrath- 100 gold
Spell Scroll Genie- 300 gold
Spell Scroll Heal Body- 300
Spell Scroll Sleep- 200 gold
Spell Scroll Tempest- 200 gold

This, of course, is not perfect, as if a body point is truly worth 150 gold, Heal Body should be 600 in value. However Heal Body costs an action to use and can't normally be used to save a hero that just reached 0 body points.

Fire Ring- 200 gold
Reason- you can only use it twice and only on fire spells. With a little bit of luck you can escape a Fireburst trap and Ball of Flame unscathed. So the only sure way to avoid damage is in use against a Firestorm spells. But there really aren't that many spells you can use this against. So it's of very limited use.

Magical Throwing Dagger- 200 gold
Reason- it's an automatic one hit if thrown, but I imagine you can try stabbing with it as well. At maximized effect a Genie can make 5 hits, but it also has the unlikely potential to flop. Enemies also have the ability to defend. This negates that, but only gives one damage. So it's an instant kill for small monsters, but not entirely effective against big ones.


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby lestodante » February 13th, 2020, 7:22 pm

We are once again on the same matter... Wizard's weakness!! I also agree on the fact that some spells are more useful than others (although I think Rock Skin is very powerful, at least in the European version, not a medium one).
Spell scrolls and other artifacts can be used by any hero. So basically a Barbarian with a scroll could also cast a Genie. But the Wizard still can't use anything that gives him a 4 dice attack or similar.
I think every spell could have his scroll version but sometimes it should be weaker than the real spell, just to give to the Wizard the privilege of mastering the most powerful magic. For example a Courage spell lasts until the target can no longer see any monster; Its scroll version should instead lasts 1 turn only.
Sometimes beetween quests the Hero may found a "scroll seller" and these scrolls can be bought. They are magic items, so not every merchant can sell them, they must be rare ad limited.
Your price looks expensive to me. I did a post about new Wizard's staffs wich give him additional skills and spells. Last idea was to make them available for a limted time of quests, by paying a tribute to the Wizards College (each College has its own special staff) and then he has to return it or "rent" for more quests by paying an additional tribute.


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby Kurgan » March 7th, 2020, 11:55 pm

Potions also could be considered to be based upon the cost needed to craft them. So whether the Heroes buy the from an Alchemist or Apothecary, or craft them themselves, they're not free. Once the Heroes are Knighted, I almost feel like they should collect some kind of salary, but that's an optional rule. For the most part they act as mercenaries, privateers, heroes for hire. They're expected to provide their own gear (other than what they start with). Artifacts are "priceless" but I like these ideas here about trying to put a price on their usefulness. I agree that their value is not just in their usefulness but in their rarity.


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby Anderas » March 8th, 2020, 8:00 am

What about the difference of one-time and permanent?

Heroic Brew, I'd have no problems to sell it for 30 to 50 gold, as it gives only one additional attack action.
The Wand of Magic allows you to do that all the time, so I'd see a huge difference here.

What do you people think, for permanent effects, would a potion price x 10 be reasonable? Given that there are reasonable potion prices of course.

I think the potion shops in the expansions are heavily overpriced. I follow Sotiris there, he had made up a potion shop with reasonable prices.

There is a rules interpretation that you auto-drink a potion of healing the moment you die. Those potions are worth a lot.

Another rules interpretation says only your friends can save you and only during the next turn. Like that, potions of healing are worth a little less, as you better use them prematurely for safety. In my Questimator I use that one.


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby wallydubbs » March 8th, 2020, 11:56 am

I came across this booklet on Ebay a while back that sells potions for fairly cheap and reasonable prices:
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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby Anderas » March 8th, 2020, 2:59 pm

Interesting that he seems to put the rejuvenation potion at a much lower price than the heroic brew.


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby Kurgan » March 10th, 2020, 10:35 pm

I would say the sellback value should be full, since you can't just use a half a potion (maybe you could make that a house rule with a healing potion, use half the body points or something). Imagine having to trade a potion for a needed piece of armor or a weapon.

I often wondered the intention of the price values on SOME potions in the Potion Deck... but without asking the author I thought of something. Let's say you random draw one you like (at the start of the Quest as I allow with certain classes), and want another like it, I'd let the hero player purchase another (the idea being they spent the gold either for the Alchemist to make it for them or spent gold on the ingredients to make it).


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby Anderas » March 11th, 2020, 2:32 pm

If you properly search for treasures, you get so many potions....
I thought about selling prices and then realized that either the equipment is too cheap or the potions too expensive.

Now I am thinking rather to have a due date on them somehow...


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby Kurgan » March 14th, 2020, 1:20 pm

You mean the potions expire?


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Re: Putting a Price on Artifacts

Postby Anderas » March 14th, 2020, 4:01 pm

I have really no good idea right now.

Thinking about a potion stealing monster.
About adding to the difficulty if there are too many potions, so they get used up

I don't want to impose a blunt in the face expiry.
Could be, why not, it would be easy. At the start of a quest, roll the combat die for each potion, on a bunny discard it. But that's a frustrating element and I don't want those in my games.


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