Ye Olde Inn

Goblin-King wrote:We notice there are yet still no "classic restrictions" text in the bottom. This proves the system from the original game has been disregarded.
Going from there we can only assume the wordings mean exactly what they mean. The Ancient Staff grants the ELF the ability to...]

I'm inclined to agree. Every Hero can use or wear it, but only the ELF gets the goodies.
That's not good, but then again, how good a quest pack is MotM anyway? I think it was never playtested...

Artefacts in question: Ancient Staff, Elven Boots, Elven Bracers.
None of them are found during the first three quests, in which case the card wordings would have made sense.
The way it is, 5 of the quest pack's artefacts, only 3 of them useable among the other heroes, make the Elf a sparkly spelly tank. Which begs the question if this quest pack is the first of a not completely conceived series making all four heroes sparkly spelly tanks. 'Dwarf and Wizard Quest Pack', anyone?

Well, the staff, boots and bow have a limited lifetime, so I'm not really concerned about what would otherwise indeed be a sparkly spelly tank.
But with the bracers he is better than the barbarian in every single way.
Since attacks are strictly weapon based and elf and barb can use the same weapons, the only thing barbarian had going for him was the high amount og BP.
But NOOOOO the elf had to take that away from him too!

Really, the barbarian's special ability should be that he always rolls 1 extra attack die than what is listed on the weapon.

So switch over to my breakdown of Hero stats already.

Goblin-King wrote:Well, the staff, boots and bow have a limited lifetime, so I'm not really concerned about what would otherwise indeed be a sparkly spelly tank.
But with the bracers he is better than the barbarian in every single way.
Since attacks are strictly weapon based and elf and barb can use the same weapons, the only thing barbarian had going for him was the high amount og BP.
But NOOOOO the elf had to take that away from him too!

Really, the barbarian's special ability should be that he always rolls 1 extra attack die than what is listed on the weapon.

That's why I prefer to disregard the Elven Bracers Artifact Card in favor of using the Elven Chainmail. The Elven Bracers might have made more sense if it gave 1 Body Point and 1 Mind Point.

You can always set a magical trap for a later Quest that removes them from play, like the sparkling mist that destroys Borin's Armor or Orc's Bane in Quest 2 of RotWL. The Elf will cry for ages.

Daedalus wrote:That's why I prefer to disregard the Elven Bracers Artifact Card in favor of using the Elven Chainmail. The Elven Bracers might have made more sense if it gave 1 Body Point and 1 Mind Point.

You can always set a magical trap for a later Quest that removes them from play, like the sparkling mist that destroys Borin's Armor or Orc's Bane in Quest 2 of RotWL. The Elf will cry for ages.

This is why I changed the bracers to +1MP, +1BP, +1 move die, and gave the AotN the ability to re-roll one combat die per attack. Makes the two very different.

Different is better--those are some good changes. As published, I guess things even out when the Barbarian gets the Amulet of the North, but meanwhile the Elf outshines the Barbarian even more, which isn't right. Or maybe it's temporarily okay, since the EQP is themed for the Elf.

I guess the Elf could get both the Elven Bracers and Elven Chain Mail armor, but allowing both in the same Quest pack may be too much. If I ever get around to playing the US expansions, I will probably award one or the other after the BQP. The Barbarian will better balance against the Elf by then, as he will be eligible for a better weapon using my AHQ-like houserule for strength.

My spell upgrade houserules should cover the Wizard well enough for higer play. What to do about the Dwarf?

For what it's worth, I gave the other heroes the following "level-up" items:

Dwarf - Crown of the Ancestors: +1BP, +1MP, +1 defence die

Wizard - Circlet of Scorcery: +2MP, + 1 Spell Group.

Also, forgot that I canged the Amulet of the North to +2BP and re-roll one combat die.

drathe wrote:The chain mail is in the quest notes. But there is no card. It is believed to have been replaced by (or be the replacement of) the Elven Bracers card as there are no Elven Bracers in the notes.

I don't actually believe that the Elven chainmail is a mistake. When all the other artifacts are discovered, there is no text as to how they work as the quest notes refer you to the artifact card. The quest notes for the Elven chainmail detail how it works, just as it does in quest 9 for the Elven potions of speed and vision, for which there are also no corresponding artifact cards.

I do believe however that the Elven Bracers are a mistake. I place them in the chest in quest 7, in the top right corner, for which there are no notes. I also believe this is where it was intended that they should be found. There are no notes for the chest which is unusual. Not even a "This chest is empty". If you look at the letter placing on the quest map, the letter H would be appropriate here, and there is even space on the quest notes page for a note H in respect of the chest.

As to who can use the various artifacts, I can see the arguments given for universal use of certain artifacts that don't specifically say only the elf can use them, but I go with how the cards are written. The Eleven Boots for example say they grant the 'Elf' extra movement, The 'Elf' rolls movement dice and they wear out if the 'Elf' rolls a treble. So in my quests Only the Spell scroll, Bone Wand and Sky Orb are available to the other heroes. This is just my personal opinion though.

The Elf armor, boots and bracers are sized and designed for an Elf. It isn't that a human or dwarf would be forbidden from using these artifacts, it is a sizing and fit issue.
Human gear is sized for humans, Dwarf gear for Dwarves and Elf Gear is for Elves. Now if you find yourself in a major commerce center that has artisans, then maybe you can get gear from one of the other species. But it will cost you twice the price...

The above reasoning is why the heroes at my table are not presently hoarding the superior Lizardman gear the reptoids use. It isn't that there is some magical reason you can't use the Lizardman gear, are you 9 foot tall with 4 foot wide shoulders that come down in a rapid taper to the hips? Didn't think so...the armor will not fit any heroes. The +4 sword? It is too unwieldy for any heroes. It is far to large and the handle is ergonomically designed with a Liardman warriors hands in mind. Use the sword and risk a wrist injury. Lizardman spears? They are way to large in diameter for the heroes. Once again, this item is designed for a lizardman, thus the spear is much larger and heavier than a human spear. Now it might be useable as a lance or a pike....
~There is one item that the heroes in my game could loot from the lizards and use but none of them want it. "The Nose Ring of Message Spell" {Sometimes this item is a large bone instead of a ring} This item is used as a piercing through the nostril holes of some soldier Lizardmen. When in place the item will allow the casting of a Message Spell 3x per day.
Seems that none of my Players want a huge nose ring or bone through their heroes face. They have like three of them they never intend on using.~

cynthialee wrote:~There is one item that the heroes in my game could loot from the lizards and use but none of them want it. "The Nose Ring of Message Spell" {Sometimes this item is a large bone instead of a ring} This item is used as a piercing through the nostril holes of some soldier Lizardmen. When in place the item will allow the casting of a Message Spell 3x per day.
Seems that none of my Players want a huge nose ring or bone through their heroes face. They have like three of them they never intend on using.~

It sometimes amuses me to give players an item that they won't want to use. This is more true in my D&D games than in HQ, however.