AGAINST THE OGRE HORDE discussion

[LucaRocks]

BBTS has Ogre horde on sale for $30

https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Product/ ... 269367?o=4

EDIT: SALE HAS ENDED

[SirRick]

So was there any official clarification on how the Dread spells work from this pack? Does the defender defend with shields, or do skulls rolled cancel each other out? Such as the bad guy rolls 4 skulls, the Wizard rolls 3 skulls, would the bad guy only score 1 skull in this case?

[Kurgan]

So was there any official clarification on how the Dread spells work from this pack? Does the defender defend with shields, or do skulls rolled cancel each other out? Such as the bad guy rolls 4 skulls, the Wizard rolls 3 skulls, would the bad guy only score 1 skull in this case?

It's a good question and I'm asking it on Avalon Hill discord right now to see what we might get in response!

My thought is this...

Yes we know that they've now officially "nerfed" (by clarifying a stricter interpretation and actually re-wording it to exclude more generous interpretations) the Command spell in First Light. Granted, First Light is separated from ATOH by a length of time (though they've meant to clarify Courage for some time, recalling my infamous shouting at Avalon Bill on discord over it, again, which I apologized in-person for, though I still favor my old interpretation as the most fun use of the spell). We also know that "Zargon can do what he wants" is the golden rule, and we know this is another expansion that AH didn't originally create, but has merely modified in remake form for the present, so regardless of what the original designers intended (or what fans interpreted) they have a right to articulate what they intended when they released this one...

To me, unlike a fan modification (like Phoenix's) where the Chaos Sorcerers have 3-6 BP each, I see that this one preserves the low (1) BP making them quite weak. With this in mind I'm tempted to take a maximalist reading of the spells simply for the fact that they may be wiped out in one round by the heroes anyway, before they have a chance to exhaust any significant fraction of their magic, making for a pretty anti-climactic battle. The "fun" side here kicks in where Zargon could play it by ear (if the heroes are almost dead by this point, maybe he might go easy on them, or if it's clear they're going to just steamroll them all, go for a more powerful interpretation).

Mind Burst (formerly Mind Blast) is the most clear on how to use. Both attacker and victim roll the number of dice equal to their mind points.
Here it is a simple matter of Skulls vs Skulls. So Dread Sorcerer rolls 3 skulls, Dwarf he cast it on rolls 2 skulls. Bad guy wins, and he had one more than his victim, so Dwarf loses 1 mind point. But if it had been the other way (Dwarf rolled 3, bad guy rolled 2) then the bad guy loses a mind point! I wouldn't assume the bad guy goes into shock (no rule written about bad guys going into shock, only heroes) nor about them going unconscious, but I would see how lowering mind points of the bad guy would weaken his ability to "win" at these dice roll offs. If it's too risky to use the spell in this state, that pushes the bad guy to use his physical attack instead. A zero mind point bad guy still can cast spells, attack, move, and do everything as he normally would, but the effectiveness of his spells has been weakened.


"Rolls dice equal to their mind points":
For this and all three spells I would assume this means their CURRENT mind points, not their maximum starting amount. This allows variability in the fight. There's a benefit to keeping mind points up for the good guy (in this version he goes into "Shock" at 0 instead of going unconscious... which is six of one and half a dozen of the other in terms of difficulty.. an unconscious hero can't win or lose... if the whole party is unconscious they lose and must replay the quest but aren't technically dead so no swapping in George Jr. the Barbarian to replace George the Barbarian who died valiantly in battle; a hero in "Shock" is easy pickings for killing the old fashioned way and isn't likely to do much help to his team against any significant threat, though he could still use magic or carry items if he has any to use, though those items would be dropped and could be gathered by other heroes if he were "unconscious"... and an "unconscious" hero has no death save rule for him while a "shocked" victim could be brought out of it by a simple potion of restoration if any has one).

Now Mind Burst is the only one that explicitly says count Skulls against Skulls. The other two I am going to say should be read as Skulls are counted for the bad guy against the White Shields of the hero being targeted. Why? You could simply treat all three the same way, but because it doesn't say, I think that favors the Shield interpretation because that's normally how heroes defend. It also makes it a bit tougher for the hero (see before the overall weakness of these bad guys) since there are 3 skulls on each combat die, but only 2 white shields.

What about Dominate? Should it be "nerfed" in the same way as Command is in first light? First off, this is not First Light, and second, this is not the command spell. Simply being able to "use" a hero figure/piece vs. only being able to move and use the weapon attack is quite different. I think the intention all along was that Command you got to move and attack other heroes, but it wasn't strictly defined what else or in what manner they could do it (the infamous "cast Pass Through Rock and park yourself inside a wall trick idea). I would have at the very least allowed the Commandeered hero to use any attack spells/scrolls he might have, and any potions that enhance his attack (Potion of Strength, Heroic Brew, etc). But Avalon Hill seems to be saying "no" to that. So what of Dominate? I would give Zargon full control of the character. Again, the Sorcerers are very weak as it is, and this power (unlike Command which requires it be resisted... which is also based on current mind points by the way) lasts only one turn each (it runs out by the time Zargon's turn is over). I take the "his turn" to mean Zargon's turn, rather than the specific hero's turn (otherwise the Hero is "forever" taken over, because there's no further way for the hero to resist once he's taken over, just has to ride it out).

They also nerfed the "Pit of Dread" (formerly Pit of Chaos). Now the hero has a chance to move OUT of the pit on his next turn (if he doesn't, then he really is taken over "forever"). Here a "forever" taken over Hero I would give all his abilities to Zargon at this point. It's possible a hero could have a terrible movement roll and/or be boxed in by monsters and thus be unable to get out of the pit, but most of the time he's going to be okay. But once Dominated, marching him into the Pit seems like a worthwhile evil move. Put him right in the center! At this point should he roll black shields like a monster? On this last part, a Dominated hero doesn't have to worry about defense, because he's not going to be attacked on Zargon's turn, and by the time of the first hero's turn, he's going to be back to "normal" anyway.

[Kurgan]

Against the Ogre Horde still hasn't been posted officially in PDF format on the Hasbro Consumer Care page for game instructions (EXCEPT in German...).