Against the Ogre Horde Errata (for a 2021 revised edition)?

[Maalicia_Ironhoof]

Hi Guys, I have been working on a 2021 revision for this pack and am curios if there is a compiled Errata for this pack to integrate fixes into my version?

Current state of it is on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Heroquest/comm ... 1_edition/

Also looking for suggestions for opening Potions Page/Alchemists Shop & Artifacts

Cheers!

[Kurgan]

Not so much an errata but a further explanation of "Playing the quest as a series." Does this mean you get the special healing potions only if you don't visit the Armory/Alchemist shops in between quests? (the UK edition didn't have an Alchemist shop and the Armory was a series of equipment cards, but meaning "buy things")?

Do these big potions need to restore lost mind points also? Does it mean without them you don't heal between quests? What is the difference then between playing "as a series" or not?

I think there are a few places where the heroes risk getting "trapped" in a room by a falling block trap because there is no way to "fix" such a trap after it has been triggered/sprung. So either force the hero back out of the room automatically or provide a way to escape the room (scroll of pass through rock hidden as treasure in the room, or a secret door hidden). Sometimes there is a monster to fight in the room but usually they are just stuck there forever unless Zargon politely forces them back to safety when the block falls on their head.

Ogres can't be passed through by anyone normally. Does this mean other Ogres can pass through Ogres or not? What about if you use Veil of Mist magic or Dust of Disapearance?

These are more rule clarifications.

The body point trackers are a cool idea but not used in the North American versions and the developers of Barbarian Quest pack, etc. back in 1992 called them "stupid." How best to handle variable body point monsters or just convert to fixed body points? Optional rule?

The way Falling Block traps land is slightly different so more of a consideration within conversion process....

Also, what does "forever" mean in this game? Does it mean until death, or that character can never be used again? (See spoilers on the second to last quest).

Ogres are mentioned as mercenaries but no rules are provided for hiring them.

Edit: I made some factual errors in this post, see the response below. Oops~!

[Maalicia_Ironhoof]

Thanks Kurgan, some food for thought certainly in you post - some are quite directly addressed in the ATOH booklet though.

"Playing the quest as a series." Does this mean you get the special healing potions only if you don't visit the Armory/Alchemist shops in between quests? (the UK edition didn't have an Alchemist shop and the Armory was a series of equipment cards, but meaning "buy things")?

By AH (in the 2021 edition) placing the Alchemist Shop "potions" into the equipment deck, they have defined them as "Equipment" so the only opportunity to gear up is before the first quest.

From the ATOH booklet: At the start of the first Quest, each character should receive five healing potions, each of which will heal the character up to his maximum Body points once. Take a note of these potions on the character sheets and cross them off as you use them. Any number of potions may be used in any one Quest. Characters that use magic may replenish their spells between Quests, but they must keep the same spells they chose right at the start of the first Quest. Characters may not buy new equipment between these Quests but may keep anything they have found in those Quests.

The Evil Wizard player should reshuffle the treasure pack between each Quest, returning any used treasure cards from the previous Quest to the pack. If any of the characters are killed during a Quest, Mentor is able to magically transport a new starting character to join the party at the beginning of the following Quest.

Do these big potions need to restore lost mind points also? Does it mean without them you don't heal between quests? What is the difference then between playing "as a series" or not?

The above booklet extract notes that the healing potions heal Body points, not mind points, BUT my version includes the notes "As in the game system, heroes are returned to full strength (all Body and Mind Points are restored) between quests."

Ogres can't be passed through by anyone normally. Does this mean other Ogres can pass through Ogres or not? What about if you use Veil of Mist magic or Dust of Disapearance?

Straight from the UK ATOH booklet "All Ogres occupy one space on the HeroQuest gameboard. No other figure may pass through the same space as an Ogre figure, whether they are good or evil." I think that is pretty straight forward, and using spells/artifacts to circumvent this should really be at the mercy of the GM/Morcar/Zargon (in my opinion anyway).

I think there are a few places where the heroes risk getting "trapped" in a room by a falling block trap because there is no way to "fix" such a trap after it has been triggered/sprung. So either force the hero back out of the room automatically or provide a way to escape the room (scroll of pass through rock hidden as treasure in the room, or a secret door hidden). Sometimes there is a monster to fight in the room but usually they are just stuck there forever unless Zargon politely forces them back to safety when the block falls on their head.

The way Falling Block traps land is slightly different so more of a consideration within conversion process....

This is the kind of stuff I really need to unpack and fault find more, I like the idea of a pass through rock spell scroll being found in a dead end/trapped room

The body point trackers are a cool idea but not used in the North American versions and the developers of Barbarian Quest pack, etc. back in 1992 called them "stupid." How best to handle variable body point monsters or just convert to fixed body points? Optional rule?

I was never a fan of the variable BP to be honest, in QUEST 6 - Fortress of the Ogre Lord, the wandering monster is an Ogre Warrior, so you could really wing a heap of wandering monster's beforehand and get to the Ogre Lord as the big boss; and he only has 1BP (being the last counts on the tracker!), so my intention is to assign fixed stats to each Ogre Type, it might not suit everyone's tastes, but there is no real win/win for doing a project like this, someone is going to be upset either way!

Also, what does "forever" mean in this game? Does it mean until death, or that character can never be used again? (See spoilers on the second to last quest).

Not sure I understand this reference, are you talking about QUEST 5 - The Pit of Chaos/Dread? "Anyone who moves into the pit will instantly turn to Chaos and fall under the control of the Evil Wizard player forever."

My interpretation of that is the Hero is for all intensive purposes dead and to be controlled by the GM/Morcar/Zargon for the rest of the quest - how you treat dead players is up to you (if you jest let them play on for the next quest - or start a fresh one).

Ogres are mentioned as mercenaries but no rules are provided for hiring them.

if you are familiar with Warhammer lore they are commonly Mercenaries for hire, by "good" or "evil" armies - I think this is a bit of "over" information in the "background" trying to define their personalities, I never thought of it as information that could leave questions to be honest... but i see from your point that someone could be left to wonder from it... but I also like that - if you want mercenary Ogres - make your own homebrew for them.

One of my favorite things in... well almost everything is not having everything spelt out and leaving a sense of wonder, interpretation and leaving doors open for your own storytelling...

Again, a lot of good points in this, thanks for this point of view.

[Kurgan]

Good points and forgive my laziness not re-checking the "as a series" text to see it wasn't quite as unclear as I thought!

I guess there's a bit of vagueness about what a hero under the command of evil can do. Clearly the intention in the Game System was that they can "attack other heroes" while "moving as a monster." So they don't trigger or be harmed by traps, presumably they still roll white shields for defense (I suppose that's a given, would they convert to black shields?) and still roll dice to move instead of having fixed movement (their full movement?). "Attack" means they could attack, but what about spells, do they have full use of them or just "attack" spells converted to attack heroes instead of monsters? (so you could use Ball of Flame against your friends, but maybe not heal yourself). If the bad guy is killed does he revive with a potion and remain evil? Can he use Pass through Rock to deliberately put himself into solid rock and die, losing all of his gear in the process? Zargon's prerogative, but it makes a big difference what he thinks he can do. The most "fun" option is that anything the hero could do, Zargon can make him do, but he just switched teams. Sucks to be that player! (much like the hero who falls into the bottomless crevasse in Frozen Horror).

[Maalicia_Ironhoof]

Good points and forgive my laziness not re-checking the "as a series" text to see it wasn't quite as unclear as I thought!

I guess there's a bit of vagueness about what a hero under the command of evil can do. Clearly the intention in the Game System was that they can "attack other heroes" while "moving as a monster." So they don't trigger or be harmed by traps, presumably they still roll white shields for defense (I suppose that's a given, would they convert to black shields?) and still roll dice to move instead of having fixed movement (their full movement?). "Attack" means they could attack, but what about spells, do they have full use of them or just "attack" spells converted to attack heroes instead of monsters? (so you could use Ball of Flame against your friends, but maybe not heal yourself). If the bad guy is killed does he revive with a potion and remain evil? Can he use Pass through Rock to deliberately put himself into solid rock and die, losing all of his gear in the process? Zargon's prerogative, but it makes a big difference what he thinks he can do. The most "fun" option is that anything the hero could do, Zargon can make him do, but he just switched teams. Sucks to be that player! (much like the hero who falls into the bottomless crevasse in Frozen Horror).

I always thought of it as your last point :"The most "fun" option is that anything the hero could do, Zargon can make him do, but he just switched teams. Sucks to be that player!".

At the end of the day, you want it to be a fun and engaging as possible!

Its good to hear other peoples opinions around this stuff; as I have played it a number of times since its initial release and over the years have obviously had my own fixes/interpretations and a fixed point of view as well as how to deal with being trapped in a room etc.

you've definitely given me some extra work to do!

[Kurgan]

I keep forgetting that I actually do own ATOH now (minus the box) and I can refer to the original manual. If I have time tonight I'll go over it and see if I notice any other issues to add to what has already been said. I played the first 3 quests of this long ago, but it was using Phoenix's mod rather than the original and I'm less familiar with the EU rules in general (though I'm learning fast!).

I guess this whole time I've been thinking more about what a 2023/2024 Remake edition of the pack would be like, but when you're making your own, it could be anything you want of course... the idea of an errata list is useful, whatever one does with that information!

[wallydubbs]

One other thing about this quest pack is the lack of artifacts. I'd suggest utilizing the spell scrolls collected from Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord and reusing them, allowing the heroes to draw a scroll card when coming across a Sorcerer's Table.

I've gone over the Variable Body Points chart before and have found some inconsistencies with the charts and # or Ogres in each quest. Sometimes there's more skulls on the charts then ogres in the quest. I. Fortress of the Ogre Lord there could be MORE Ogres then the chart shows due to Wandering Monsters. I think it was drathe who made some cards that could still be found in the inn that gave Ogres a fixed # of Body Points. I remember going over this by comparison and I found the difference is negligible by 3BP at most per quest. So I'd prefer going with fixed BP.

I have no objections to finding a Pass Through Rock scroll or Ring of Return in a room with falling block traps. However a secret door may need to be added in Quest 2, Outer Caves, as a falling block traps just behind the door makes this quest impassable.