Kurgan wrote:I didn't think too hard about it but you're right... that card doesn't specify what "tossing" counts as, so we could assume it's a free action, akin to drinking a potion (rather than casting a spell which is always considered an action unless the card says otherwise). And this was a special item found only in the NA edition which had no Ogre Horde expansion originally...
I guess for me I'm inclined to say that Veil of Mist just works against Ogres like other monsters, and I'd allow the Dust to have the same effect (not for passing through furniture though, I'd just say you can't do that period... unless it was some house rule like my "uncommon feats".. you're going to have to convince me in-game how it works and I'll give you a 50% chance of success once per turn!).
Here I can picture someone coming up with a table of probabilities that different types of Ogre can be fooled or bypassed by magic... maybe based on their mind points?
Well Anderes hasn't been active in a while. He's your chart guy.but I can give you a comprehensive analysis of all these pass-through spells and how it relates to Ogres.
Veil of Mist generally comes down to 2 viewpoints and it's up to Zargon on how to apply it:
1.) The must is conjured as a cloak so the hero can slip past monsters without being noticed
2.) The hero becomes the must, separating into particles of water and reforming when you stop moving
Most go with the first interpretation, which is fine. But when a Hero is enchanted with Pass Through Rock one can argue the hero becomes one with the stone wall moves through. Either sharing molecules with rock or vibrating beyond stone's natural frequency. So you can really go either way when discussing magic.
Dust of Disappearance alludes to incapacitating the monster's vision of the hero, allowing him to slip by and we get something similar to that Raphael/Foot Soldier/Christmas Tree scene from Ninja Turtles 2 (Secret of the Ooze).
Either way you look at it, passing through a monster is based on their observation of a hero. If the hero becomes the must or is hidden by the mist, either way the monster can't see the hero to stop him.
Therefore the monster's failure to observe the hero allows him to pass by, and this by extension, allows the spells of Invisibility and Disappear to work in similar fashion.
However a hero enchanted with Pass Through Rock can still be hindered by a monster and traps (though a Falling Block Trap could still be triggered, I don't think it should hurt the hero).
Upon saying this though, I realize that Veil of Mist doesn't absolve a hero from triggering them, which a mist wouldn't do. In fact the only one of these spells that saves a hero from traps is Disappear.
Disappear is similar to Invisibility, which only appears to bend light around the hero, so they can't be attacked or have spells cast against them, they can also still perform actions while Invisible (except Attack).
Disappear seems to be as close to incaporeal as you'll get. He doesn't interact with monsters or traps while I under the effects, yet at the same time he can still open doors but not pass through walls. Be that as it may, in the instance of Disappear, where the hero is vibrating on a frequency that is on and off the board, passing through Ogres should be acceptable, at least to me.
There is but 1 other spell that allows heroes to pass through monsters, this would be Skate from the Frozen Horror. This spell seems to encapsulate the effects of Swift Wind and Veil of Mist into one. However, no blinding ability or visual impairment towards a monster is associated with this spell. I assume it's due to the slipperiness of ice, maneuverability of skating and swiftness of the hero that gives it this effect. However, Ogres are not associated with any icy and frozen quests, so arguing the point on this one is meaningless.
We also have the Stealth Skill introduced in favor of the new Rogue character. If we stick to the premise that Ogres are are too big to pass around, the Rogue clearly shouldn't be able to either.
Veil of Mist: can be cast by the Wizard or Elf and allows the recipient of this spell to pass through monsters. He can still trigger traps and can still perform an action. If you're playing that the Ogre is too big, he shouldn't be able to pass through him, but it's already an underused spell so I can understand if you choose to not limit it's effects.
Stealth: can only be performed by the Rogue. He can pass through any monsters he wishes like an permanent Veil of Mist. When it comes to Ogres I don't think he should be able to.
Skate: can be cast by whomever holds the scroll on any hero gives an extra 6 movement while allowing them to pass through monsters. This can only be used in icy caverns. Nothing is noted about traps, so I assume these can be triggered too. Although giving lack of reason the card speaks plainly enough. It's featured in a quest pack that doesn't have any Ogres, but for those who might create such a quest I think Ogres would be an exception.
Pass Through Rock : only works on walls, you wouldn't be able to pass through monsters or ogres unless they are stone based monsters. The hero can still trigger traps, but I feel a falling block trap won't hinder them.
Invisibility: The Wizard can turn any hero invisible, they can't be seen, attacked or have a spell cast against them. So they
should be able to sneak past monsters like Veil of Mist. The spell expands into the monster's turn and prevents that hero from being attacked. The hero, on his turn, still has movement and an action except when it comes to attacking. I think the hero, since he cannot be threatened by a monster, should therefore be able to perform normal searches despite monsters being present. This hero can also act as an invisible barrier between a monster and other heroes, choosing to block the monster's path if he chooses, the monster still won't be able to attack, apparently too confused about his situation. Traps can still trigger on an invisible hero, but wandering monsters can't attack. But when it comes to Ogres the hero is not changing anything about himself, light is merely bending around them, so he should not be able to sneak past an Ogre.
Dust of Disappearance: can be tossed by any hero holding the bag, but only on himself, it's a free action that allows the hero to pass through monsters that are oblivious and can only see the dust. The hero may continue his action after moving. In the case of Ogres, I think we're looking at the same space issue.
Disappear: the Elf can cast this on anyone who will vibrate in and out of reality indefinitely. They do not trigger traps and since enemies cannot observe them they can pass through freely. Because they don't trigger traps it's safe to assume they're not completely in this reality and can thus pass through Ogres too. The spell stays active until the hero rolls 9 or higher and he can perform no actions while under this spell's effects. Apparently the hero needs to be in a certain state of mind to keep this spell active.
= white skull, one "hit"
= black skull, one "hit"
= shield, cancels out one "hit"
